Discussion in 'Televisions' started by fethead. Display results as threads; Useful Searches. Full-HD Testbild Deutsch: Wollen Sie die Bildqualit; Display Workshop - TV Bildoptimierung f; Burosch USB-1 Bildoptimierung Display Expert Tuning USB-Stick, Bildeinstellungstool mit Test- und Referenzbilder - Jetzt einfach online bestellen auf conrad.de, Ihr. Nov 11, 2012 Expert: Kendall McGuire. Both the violin and viola are great. How I Change My Violin Strings + Tips + Tuning - Duration.
Heifetz played an aluminum violin once, but he didn’t make a career of it. The difficult problem with a 5-string fiddle (or viola or cello for that matter) is coping with the additional stresses on the body of the instrument. I understand that you may have to use thicker wood, in which case the resonance and response of the instrument will suffer. That probably explains Brad’s comment. But, Brad, have the instrument looked at by an expert - careful adjustment or replacement of soundpost, bridge, bass-bar even, and choice of strings may do the trick. People have experimented with 10-course classical guitars - the great Narciso Yepes used one for years - but the tone sounds dull compared with the traditional 6-course guitar. You’re getting the same problem of trying to cope with the additional stresses.
5-string cellos have been made with an E above the A, only a handful - the late Florence Hooton had one, with the specific object of playing Bach’s 6th suite for unaccompanied cello which was written for a 5-stringed instrument now lost. The suite is playable (with difficulty I might add!) on the standard instrument, but it’s necessary to make alterations to the chording in the sarabande. Schubert also wrote a sonata for a 5-string cello (the 'arpeggione' sonata) but that’s well within the range of modern technique on the standard cello.
I wonder (I’m not a fiddle maker or repairer) if a 5-string viola (with an E string) might be more feasible. Violas are naturally heavier and may be able to withstand the stresses more easily. Even so, it may be advisable to use lighter C and G strings to balance the E. Another possibilty occurs to me. That of using gut strings on the 5-string instrument, tuning it to baroque pitch (A415) and placing a capo at the half-position. This may reduce the stresses to an acceptable level, but I wonder if the sound would be up to coping with the average session.
It may sound ok solo, though. 5-string violins are available in electronic versions, where there’s no soundbox and the extra stresses aren’t a problem, but who wants to play one of those in a pub session!
I think we need good technical input on this one from an experienced fiddle maker. Trevor Posted by 15 years ago. Re: 5 String Violins. I have a 5 string violin that a luthier friend of mine from Cape Breton made for me last February, and it’s the size of a 3/4 viola. The difference is size and weight is noticeable (compared to my 4 string), and the fingerboard is of course wider, and the interval between notes slighter greater. Atpl human factors pdf editor.
There’s a definite adjustment time required for me to feel comfortable playing it, but the resonance of the low C, G and D strings is well worth it. It is good for playing tunes an octave lower, double-stopping, playing harmonies—-and you could also play viola music if you were into it. I find the upper strings, the E and A, to be a bit thin sounding compared to my other fiddle, but I’m not sure if that’s something that may change as it’s played more and moreIt’s a beautifully made instrument, and I know all new instruments have a 'breaking-in' period. It would be nice to know if there are things that can be done to fill out that upper end a bit more.does anyone have any suggestions?. Posted by 15 years ago. Re: 5 String Violins. Aoife Another idea has occured to me.
I assume that all the strings on your 5-fiddle are tuned in pure fifths. This is as it should be for 4 stringed fiddles, but when you add a 5th low string the situation changes in a rather subtle manner. The C has an E harmonic.
You can find it by touching the C string lightly more or less where the E is. If all your strings are tuned exactly in pure fifths you will hear this harmonic E as being slightly flatter in pitch than your E string (652Hz as against 660Hz). The suggestion is that you sharpen the tuning of your C so that its E harmonic is the same pitch as your E string. It’s not very much - only 8Hz or about 1/5th of a semitone, and an electronic tuner might help in the early stages until your ear gets accustomed to such small pitch differences. The theory is that if the C and E strings have a harmonic exactly in common then there will be some extra resonance.
This is also helped by the fact that the A and E strings also have this E harmonic in common (often used for a quiet check on tuning) and so there should further resonance involving the A string. I’m told there’s at least one professional string quartet in the UK who make use of this theory when tuning up. The cello and viola tune their C strings just that shade sharp so that the E harmonic matches the pitch of the E strings on the two violins, and so enhancing the resonance of the quartet as a whole. Honestly, I’ve no idea whether this works on a 5-fiddle.
It may depend a lot on the inherent resonance, response and setup of the instrument, perhaps on the type of string as well. But it won’t do any harm in experimenting. I think you’ll probably need fairly quiet surroundings because I’m sure it will need careful listening, at least in the early stages. Let us know how you get on! Trevor Posted by 15 years ago. Re: 5 String Violins. Actually, Michael, a 5-string viola would be an attractive proposition for me if only to learn Bach’s 6th cello suite on a 5-string instrument.
It is believed that the instrument Bach wrote for was probably something between the size of a viola and a small cello, but it was played like a cello. So a 5-string viola would be suitable, and really the only option since a 5-string cello would be horrendously expensive to get hold of. I admit this is getting well away from irish trad music, so your comments stand! Trevor Posted by 15 years ago. Re: 5 String Violins. Carolsviolin —- Unfortunately, the quick answer as to where can you get a fiddle capo is 'I don’t know'.
I was thinking off the top of my head (bad habit, must get out more). Mandolins have fairly slim necks. I wonder if a mandolin capo could be used or adapted. Some of the specialist fiddle shops may know about it, but I don’t know of any that I could suggest at the moment, sorry. The answer to the B below the low C, if you really need that B, is to tune the C string down to B. This trick of retuning strings from their normal pitch is known technically as scordatura and is used sometimes in violins and cellos and quite a lot in fretted instruments.
Tuning the bottom one or two strings down a semitone often enhances the instrument’s resonance, but you’ve got to think carefully about the fingering on those retuned strings:-). Tuning down more than a semitone will make the string too floppy and it’s pitch will wander.trevor Posted by 15 years ago. Re: 5 String Violins. I don’t damn the thing, but I agree it’s not by any stretch of the imagination 'needed'. The only thing i liked about it is being able to play an octave down or in the octave with everyone else at the drop of a hat. As with any instrument not commonly used in trad music - it all depends who’s playing it.
If the player is adding by blending in it’s OK, if their pulling a 'Wow look at me & my 5-string' well, that’s just bad. I only bought mine cause it was dirt cheap & I had the money in my pocket. I also got what I paid for.
Posted by 15 years ago. Re: 5 String Violins. Hi All, A friend of mine asked me would I pass this information along as he thought it might be of some use: 'There are two makers (that I know of) who have developed a five string violin. One Is Gang Wang,as played by Osian McCually and the other is made by John Silakowsky a maker in Scotsburg Indiana phone-U.S.A.
Silakowsky’s Five string fiddles are played by Two times International Blugrass Music Assocation fiddler of the year Michael Cleveland, Lonesome River Band’s Mike Hartgrove,Casey Dreason and his former teacher from the Berkley School of music. Other people who are well known professionals in the Bluegrass/ country music field are Ricky Skags(Kentucky Thunder)band’s fiddler, full-time five string fiddler Bobby Hicks,Nashville Bluegrass and session fiddler Aubry Hainey. Also the late great Randy Howard a Bluegrass, and contest and nashville session fiddler owned and played two of John Sliakowsk’s Five string fiddles There are many more 'Traditional'Blugrass and country Fiddlers who are enjoying playing the five string fiddle. John Silakowsky knows and has built violins for many of them.' John Posted by 15 years ago. 5 String Violins.
I obtained my 5-string fiddle some 2 years ago and to be quite frank I couldn’t be happier with it - it sounds superb giving a rich full sound with good volume. Tim Phillips who lives in Wales made it and I note that Cait inserted a link to his site earlier in this discussion. Incidentally my picture is on his site playing the fiddle in a session in Winchester. The fiddle is essentially a small-scale viola with an extra string at the top. It has a viola bridge and is the same thickness as a viola. Ok it took some time to get used to it an even more to find strings I could get on with.
I eventually settled for a Pirastro Piranito 1/2 + 1/3 viola set with a Corelli Alliance ‘E’. The best deal I found was from a company called Strings Direct Limited and their website can be found at this is a UK based company but I’m sure they would post elsewhere. Posted by 15 years ago. Re: 5 String Violins. Aoife ok, you asked for it!
I’ll have to go a little into the maths and physics of strings to explain this one, if you’ll bear with me. If you tune your A to standard concert pitch its frequency will be 440hz.
The E is tuned to a pure 5th above the A so you multiply the frequency of the A by 1.5, thus getting the frequency of the E string as 660hz. When you tune the D to a pure 5th below the A you divide the frequency of the A by 1.5, thus getting the frequency of the D string as 293.33hz. Apply the same procedure to tuning the G string from the D and you’ll get 293.33 divided by 1.5 = 195.56hz. Similarly, the frequency of the low C string will be 195.56 divided by 1.5 = 130.37hz. (I’ve used the word 'divide' rather than a slash because using that character can sometimes cause strange things to happen in the html code lurking in the background on these websites.) Let’s look at the harmonics of a vibrating string. The harmonics are present in the sound of a vibrating string in various proportions which colour the sound. And these harmonics can cause useful resonances with other strings.
The frequencies of the harmonics can be calculated easily as follows: If you lightly touch a vibrating string exactly halfway along its length you’ll get the 1st harmonic which is an octave above the natural vibration of the string (called the 'fundamental') and twice its frequency. If you lightly touch the string exactly one-third along its length you’ll get the 2nd harmonic which is an octave + a fifth above the fundamental (3x its frequency). If you think about it, this 2nd harmonic is the same frequency as the 1st harmonic of the next string tuned a pure 5th above.
So the 2nd harmonic on the A should be the same as the 1st harmonic on the E. This is used as a basis for a quick and quiet check on tuning while you’re playing, but you should try not to use it as a regular substitute for the normal tuning procedure using open strings.
If you lightly touch the string exactly one-fourth along its length you’ll get the 3rd harmonic which is 2 octaves above the fundamental (4x its frequency). If you press your finger firmly onto the fingerboard in this position you’ll find you’re playing the note that is a fourth above the open string. Now, getting to the object of this exercise (at last!), if you touch the string lightly one-fifth along its length you’ll get the 4th harmonic which is 2 octaves + a major third above the fundamental (5x its frequency). You’ll find this harmonic in the vicinity of the note that is a major third above the open string (C# for the A, F# for the D, etc). Applying all this stuff to your C string which you’ve tuned using pure 5ths, if you calculate its 4th harmonic you’ll get: 130.37 x 5 = 651.85hz, (or 652hz rounded up) This frequency of 652hz is an E which is slightly but audibly flatter than the 660hz of the open E string, so cannot cause it to resonate. So if you raise the tuning of the C string by a small amount you can get its 4th harmonic E to equal the 660hz of the open E.
And there you have it - a little extra resonance in the instrument. Don’t expect this to show up in a session because it won’t. There’s too much going on in the form of whistles, flutes, uilleans, boxes, banjos, other fiddles, click of beer glasses, talking etc, and none of the instruments can hope to exactly match each other’s intonation. But it could work for someone playing solo in a recording studio, and, as I’ve said, some professional classical string quartets use this type of tuning for the cello and viola C’s because they’re performing in quiet resonant surroundings, perhaps a recording studio, and anyway they’re probably playing instruments most of us can only dream of!
Trevor Posted by 15 years ago. Re: 5 String Violins. A capo for a fiddle? Mandolins usually have flat fingerboards - no plucked fretted instrument has as much camber on its fingerboard as a violinm - so a mandolin capo would be of little use.
Furthermore, positioning it correctly would be much more difficult than on a fretted instrument. A capo is designed to cause the strings to be stopped at the next fret, not to stop the strings itself, so a fiddle capo, if such a thing exists, must be a very different animal. Posted by 15 years ago. Re: 5 String Violins (and tuning by harmonics). Continuing my monolog (!) on tuning with harmonics, there is actually a real use for the pitch of that 4th harmonic on a 4-string fiddle tuned in pure fifths when playing slow airs, for example. If you have, for instance, a G major chord consisting of the open G and D strings with the B natural on the A string trying playing that B a little flatter so as to correspond to the B harmonic on the G string.
You can find the pitch of the B harmonic on the G string by touching the string lightly with the 3rd finger at the place where you would normally play the B, and bowing lightly. When you find the harmonic remember its pitch and apply it to the B on the A string for when you strike that G major chord. If you get it right you Posted by 15 years ago. 5 string violins (with capo?). David, I take your point. My idea of a fiddle capo was a bit half-baked and perhaps should be put on the back burner which should now be turned off.
I think you could provide a moveable fret on a fiddle by tying a thick piece of gut string round the neck of the fiddle in the appropriate position. Lutes use this technique and fine adjustments can be made as necessary.
So it may be possible to design a suitable capo that could sit immediately behind that fret. Just a thought.
I think I’ll now go and lie down. Trevor Posted by 15 years ago. Re: 5 String Violins.
Well, I am recently returned from NEFFA where I sold both the black walnut AND the maple backed Brunkalla 5 strings!! I guess it’s true what someone said, that folkies are more open-minded about things like 5 strings than any other musicians. I took these fiddles 10,000 round trip to Germany and back without a peep of interest. But only had to drive 60 miles to sell them both. I’ll be getting in a new batch of 5 strings in a couple weeks.
Let me know if you’re interested in taking a look at them. You can see pics on the website ( or email me and I’ll send you some. Posted by 14 years ago.
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